The last successful Yankee team to be so terrible at this point was the 1995 Yankees. While they pulled out of their hole, as we've discussed, it seemed prudent to take a look-see at how that team stacks up to this one.
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Better yet, even though Derek Jeter had made his major league debut by then, there are no regulars on both teams. The 1995 squad was also brittle, with Bernie Williams the only player to top 130 games (albeit in a 144-game season). With that came a deeper use of the bench, although it's a stretch to say either club has a great corps of backups.
Here's the thing: It's tough to say hitting is the major problem for this club. It's a problem, but the pitching instability and inconsistency needs to be affected. But still, let's take a look.
The major flaw is that I won't have the pro-rated OPS+ for the 1995 team. I'm using Baseball Musings' Day-by-Day database for this, by the way.
Through 51 games (May 31, 2007 and June 23, 1995*), each team being 22-29:
Catcher: 1995: Mike Stanley -- 39-122, 6 HR, 8 2B, 25 RBI, 22 R, 19 BB, 38 K, .275/.367/.458
2007: Jorge Posada -- 60-168, 6 HR, 16 2B, 30 RBI, 31 R, 17 BB, 30 K, .357/.414/.560
Obviously, not even close. Stanley had a nice year, but Posada is doing absurd things like being on pace to play 150 games and hit almost 50 doubles, as well as hitting .357. A bright spot.
First base: 1995: Don Mattingly -- 35-137, 1 HR, 12 2B, 14 RBI, 15 R, 14 BB, 7 K, .255/.320/.365
2007: Doug Mientkiewicz -- 26-120, 4 HR, 7 2B, 15 RBI, 17 R, 10 BB, 15 K, .217/.286/.375
Josh Phelps -- 16-57, 2 HR, 2 2B, 9 RBI, 7 R, 4 BB, 12 K, .281/.339/.421
As bad as the Yankees have been in first base lately, or at least in backups, Mattingly's numbers outside of his 2:1 BB/K ratio are sad. He cleaned it up a bit for a .288/.341/.413 final line, but you can see why he called it quits. A pathetic push.
Second base: 1995: Pat Kelly -- 23-73, 3 HR, 2 2B, 7 RBI, 12 R, 12 BB, 24 K, .315/.414/.466
Randy Velarde -- 33-135, 3 HR, 6 2B, 14 RBI, 18 R, 10 BB, 23 K, .244/.295/.356
2007: Robinson Cano -- 51-193, 2 HR, 15 2B, 23 RBI, 21 R, 8 BB, 38 K, .264/.298/.394
Kelly, one of the most-hated Yankees I remember, somehow pulled this off before injury. He finished the year at .237/.307/.333, with one home run in his last 197 at-bats. Between the two, they have 15 more at-bats, four more home runs and 14 more walks. Cano gets the edge just because Velarde assuredly got some at-bats at other positions and Kelly was just awful. Again, a sad category.
Shortstop: 1995: Tony Fernandez -- 29-130, 1 HR, 6 2B, 11 RBI, 18 R, 15 BB, 13 K, .223/.306/.292
Derek Jeter -- 11-47, 0 HR, 3 2B, 6 RBI, 5 R, 6 BB, 11 K, .234/.280/.340
2007: Derek Jeter -- 70-204, 3 HR, 11 2B, 28 RBI, 32 R, 23 BB, 22 K, .343/.421/.461
With his mini-slump, Jeter's actually the tiniest bit behind last year, but hell, I'd take 1995 Jeter over Fernandez. Several other players got brief shots at shortstop in 1995, by the way, including Velarde and Kevin Elster.
Third base: 1995: Wade Boggs -- 45-161, 2 HR, 4 2B, 21 RBI, 20 R, 28 BB, 14 K, .280/.378/.354
2007: Alex Rodriguez -- 57-195, 19 HR, 11 2B, 45 RBI, 45 R, 25 BB, 42 K, .292/.386/.641
OK, this one isn't fair to the 1995 team, either. We'll see how A-Rod finishes the season, though. Boggs went .348/.433/.457.
Left field: 1995: Gerald Willams -- 15-57, 3 HR, 4 2B, 14 RBI, 12 R, 5 BB, 10 K, .263/.328/.561
Luis Polonia -- 35-142, 1 HR, 7 2B, 11 RBI, 25 R, 13 BB, 19 K, .246/.306/.345
2007: Hideki Matsui -- 40-142, 5 HR, 12 2B, 25 RBI, 23 R, 18 BB, 18 K, .282/.364/.472
Melky Cabrera -- 30-134, 2 HR, 3 2B, 15 RBI, 11 R, 11 BB, 15 K, .224/.284/.306
The 2007 Yankees gain another edge, although a slight one. Matsui is having a terribly quiet season, but he's little competition in the long run. Williams and Polonia didn't get any better collectively as the year went on. Cabrera, though, wouldn't even be on this team (or that one) were he not the only one with fresh legs.
Dion James and Velarde played 43 combined games out there in 1995. Melky has played 134 innings in left and 151 in center, plus 26 in right. I put him in left to have a two-player position for both years.
Center field: 1995: Bernie Williams -- 50-194, 8 HR, 10 2B, 31 RBI, 29 R, 20 BB, 34 K, .258/.330/.464
2007: Johnny Damon -- 42-159, 3 HR, 6 2B, 17 RBI, 27 R, 24 BB, 28 K, .264/.362/.371
Not as close as it looks. Bernie Williams was just becoming one of the American League's best all-around players, and Damon is just entering the decline phase of his career.
Right field: 1995: Paul O'Neill -- 42-127, 9 HR, 11 2B, 28 RBI, 24 R, 21 BB, 22 K, .331/.421/.630.
2007: Bobby Abreu -- 45-197, 2 HR, 6 2B, 22 RBI, 32 R, 24 BB, 42 K, .228/.313/.289
Abreu will be remembered, talent-wise, as a better all-around player. But no one could ever call O'Neill passive or defeated. Abreu has personified those descriptions this year. O'Neill was the team's best player in 1995 (and 1993 and 1994) and is worth two players compared with Abreu.
Desig-hated hitter: 1995: Dion James -- 19-62, 1 HR, 2 2B, 9 RBI, 5 R, 8 BB, 4 K, .306/.386/.387
Jim Leyritz -- 39-132, 4 HR, 8 2B, 21 RBI, 17 R, 20 BB, 46 K, .295/.400/.447
Danny Tartabull -- 35-145, 4 HR, 10 2B, 20 RBI, 20 R, 25 BB, 39 K, .241/.353/.393
2007: Jason Giambi -- 39-149, 7 HR, 5 2B, 23 RBI, 19 R, 25 BB, 35 K, .262/.380/.436
I say desig-hated because first it was a typo but also because it symbolizes the dreck thrown at this spot. Ruben Sierra was not with the team yet, too busy hitting a .284/.338/.517 that Yankee fans would never see. The 1995 Yanks get the edge, if only because Giambi is now hurt and the earlier team would soon be rid of Tartabull. Plus, Leyritz was actually an effective wild card that season.
What's the verdict? The current Yankees enjoy massive advantages at catcher, shortstop and third base with lopsided opposite outcomes in center field, right field and DH/extra. First and second base are relatively even in mediocrity, whereas left field is a crapshoot depending on who's playing. Both teams have a problem of highly concentrated strength. The 1995 Yankees, even before acquisitions such as Sierra and Darryl Strawberry, had many more options.
The 2007 Yankees have more firepower, but what you see is what we're going to get. What we see better start swinging a hot bat.
* the strike shortened the 1995 campaign, theoretically giving this year's team more time
I liked this post! Its nice to go down memory lane. I didn't know Pat Kelly was so hated. I read the Star Ledger and not the New York papers so I guess I had a different perspective. The only people I listened to about the Yankees were Phil Rizzuto and Bobby Murcur (w/ Rick Cerone occasionally filling in) on WPIX. Good times! I actually was also a Boston Red Sox fan then too (seriously I was...until 2004).
Anyway though, on paper, I can't disagree with. The individuals on the 2007 team are better individually than the 1995 team but collectively the 1995 team clearly has the edge.
Excuse me if I misguided (I only watched games on WPIX so I only saw maybe 50 games a year and I was a kid so I couldn't stay up for all of them) but the 1995 Yankees played better as a team. People had a designated role. Tartabul's nubmers were putrid but that was okay. His main goal was to drive in runners and it was actually acceptable for him just to get sac flies and not get on base (side note: do you remember when he hit what should have been a single into right field but the right fielder threw him out at first base...I wish I remembered the team they were playing).
Don Mattingly was the onfield and clubhouse leader. When the Yankees got down, he would be the one to give them a peptalk. Did they rely much on his bat that year, no because he was starting to dwindle at the time but he was still decent.
The bat they did rely on was Paul O'Neill. The guy complained if sand got on his shoe but every Yankees fan loved him for it. One of the few players in the game who would get upset at himself for not getting a hit even when they were up a few runs. The guy knocked in guys when they were on base and even though he had decent power numbers (for that time) the guy was okay with getting a single if it meant a run for the team.
Pat Kelly, I liked the dude. I guess I can't say anything about him but I am starting to understand what you mean since the Yankees kept bringing him back (which meant they kept releasing him too). Still, Pat Kelly (much like Roberto Kelly before Bernie) always played hard on the field even though he didn't always get a hit. Also, he stepped up in the early part of 1995 like you said. He had great numbers and that was important because I remember Bernie was struggling and was supposed to be that third bat (behind Tartabul and O'Neill) the Yankees needed to rely on for big hits. So give Pat Kelly some 'dap' for playing hard when others weren't.
Bernie didn't really get it going until late in the year but boy could he field.
Randy Velarde was what he was. He was a decent 2nd baseman who put up decent numbers for a a second baseman at the time.
Mike Stanley was alright too but if I remember correctly he could be a streaky hitter. One day he would get 3 hits and the next day could get nothing. He was a decent catcher. Was Matt Nokes still playing at the time?
Wade Boggs...eh, never really was a big fan of hm but he always was on base. Didn't hit for power but always got on base.
One other player I think is worth a mention is Jim Leyritz. The ultimate utility man for the Yankees. The guy played the outfield, 1st base, and catcher. In his limited role he put up decent numbers (for the time - because you have to remember .280 was considered average/decent at that time (he hit .269 so he was only a little below average).
Anyway, I liked the 1995 team more than I like today's team. It wasn't a collection of superstars but a collection of individuals who worked with the same primary objective and that was to win ball games. Today's Yankees' team does want to win ball games but try to do it in a way to make sure they get some personal glory in the process. They are all about the long ball and who will date Jessica Biel tomorrow. The 1995 team was different. Heck, only Paul O'Niell hit more than 20 homeruns that year and they still made the playoffs. I dunno, for me that says something about a team.
Sorry, if my thoughts are all over the place.
Oh - a few more notes on the 1995 Yankees.
Things I like better about the 1995 Yankees than I do about the 2007 Yankees.
Manager: Buck Showalter - wasn't afraid to get in a player's face. The players might have hated him but they sure did produce.
Bullpen: Mariano Rivera setup man and Jim Wettland as the closer. Even though Wettland would nearly make me piss my pants by putting two men on before closing out a 1 run game, Mariano as the setup man and him as the closer was awesome. Nothing could compare to it. They were so good it became forumlaic - Yankee starter: 6-7 innings, bring in Rivera, Bring in Wettland. Bing, Bang, Boom.
Starting Pitchers: Andy Pettite of 1995. Sterling Hitchcock - a guy who probably was the seventh man in a 5 man rotation but could play like the 2nd/3rd/ or 4th man on any given night. David Cone and Jack McDowell, I finally started to accept as true Yankees.
BTW - you seem big on Tino Martinez. I am wondering were you big on him when the Yankees signed him after the 1995 season? I mean the way the Yankees lost to the Mariners (up 5-0 in the fifth in game five of the ALDS I believe) I couldn't stand him, Griffey, Buhner, Randy Johnson (part of the reason I did not like him coming to NY a couple of years ago), and E. Martinez for a few years after 1995.
Welcome back. I agree with fatguy24 to an extent. While I think the 1995 team played better as a team, if I am a GM I would role the dice with the current 2007 team. Its on Torre to make them play as a team. Most of the Yankees free agents said they came to New York to win a World Series ring. If that is the case, I am sure some won't mind putting ego aside and play a role they haven't played before.
I could be remembering completely incorrectly, but Kelly was the only one at the 1996 World Series parade, where they introduced the team, that got any boos at all (he was hurt most of the year, helping the team win, most likely).
I'd take the 2007 team just because that 1995 team needed significant changes, ones that were obvious then, to become a dynasty team. Granted, this year's squad does, too, but I don't see those happening during the season.
BTW, Mariano started some games in 1995, but was not the set-up man until the next year. There were a bunch of guys, including Steve Howe, filling that role.
Bum, good to hear from you.
You are probably right about Pat Kelly. Again, the only time I saw the Yankees back then was on television. My guess is I was probably in school during the parade so I have no reason to believe you are not correct. I still liked Pat Kelly though. He was what he was and at least to me he seemed like a hard working player.
You are also right about Mariano but there were a couple of years there (maybe 96, 97) where that was the formula.